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HJ 212/213 pump curves

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HJ 212/213 pump curves

Postby Philsrt6 » Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:28 pm

Just wondering if anyone can share any of the pump curves for either the 2.9T or 3.4T impellers. Can't seem to find any graphs or info on Hamilton's website regarding these size impellers. Also, can a 212 impeller be bored out for the lager 213 shaft? Just picked up a 213 and want to properly cam and setup the top end of a 406 sbc for this pump.
Thanks
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Re: HJ 212/213 pump curves

Postby Eagle1 » Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:40 pm

Yes on bore. We take a 2.4 212 and make it a 4.0 for a 241.



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Re: HJ 212/213 pump curves

Postby Benny » Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:55 am

Hamilton seems pretty tight with good useful info like what your looking for. Think most people here spend a lot of time and money trial and error themselves to achieve desired results.

A good shortcut tho is to give Rick a call at the prop shop in Mukilteo. Let him know what your doing and have him work up an impeller for you.
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Re: HJ 212/213 pump curves

Postby Philsrt6 » Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:21 am

To bad they won’t release the power curves. It would be nice to have a target to shoot for. Second question, is the full house build that Maverick does worth the extra money? Seems like most guys just tighten up the impeller clearance and leave it at that.
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Re: HJ 212/213 pump curves

Postby Benny » Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:53 am

Sorry, I can't answer that. I have not had it done so the only info I have is second hand.
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Re: HJ 212/213 pump curves

Postby viking » Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:27 am

Over the years I've investigated published power curves (Berkeley and AT) and concluded they are approximately meaningless. They are just theoretical cubics that don't necessarily align with reality. They can be helpful if you have a known engine/impeller setup and wonder what a different impeller will do. But otherwise, experience is probably more helpful.
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Re: HJ 212/213 pump curves

Postby Philsrt6 » Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:22 pm

Well then, who has the most/best experience in tuning these pumps?
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Re: HJ 212/213 pump curves

Postby Riverjohn » Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:19 pm

Philsrt6 wrote:To bad they won’t release the power curves. It would be nice to have a target to shoot for. Second question, is the full house build that Maverick does worth the extra money? Seems like most guys just tighten up the impeller clearance and leave it at that.

I have had my 212 and 213 tightened up by others and Maverick. Best performance came from Mavericks work.
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Re: HJ 212/213 pump curves

Postby Stormtrooper » Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:25 pm

I think it's all relative to what you want. Maverick is expensive. But he sets SS tips over the stator blades. Shims the impeller farther back towards the stator and epoxy coats the pump and barrel. Is it worth it? Thats up to you.
The one thing he said to me was it was like adding 50hp to the motor. No, no and more no. It is not like adding 50hp. Hell, he may have said 100. Whatever he said he sounded ignorant to someone that knows engines.
Whoever he sells that BS garbage line to should have their head checked.
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Re: HJ 212/213 pump curves

Postby mgrant » Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:45 am

With the 212s I've had, Roy Schumacher at Intermountain Machine did a real good job in helping the 212s deal with the warmed up big blocks. His work did help reduce blowouts and lower the cruise RPMs, without saccraficing top speed.
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Re: HJ 212/213 pump curves

Postby desperado » Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:10 am

I would love to see pump curves. I know my motor, I know my impeller size, I even know my the nozzle diameter. It would be nice to see that cure so I could understand what happens when I change impeller or nozzle diameter. Seat of the pants dyno and rpm is all we have right now..
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Re: HJ 212/213 pump curves

Postby pbose » Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:53 pm

Hamilton does have some information available for impeller curve. I have only been able to locate in graphical form.

I have taken the best fit from the Hamilton literature I did find and applied it to a few KEM engine curves. (383 is not a KEM).

File is attached, hopefully the attachment works.

SBC-212 comparison.pdf
(37.59 KiB) Downloaded 86 times
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Re: HJ 212/213 pump curves

Postby viking » Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:16 pm

pbose -- good work. Kodiak says the 6.2DI turns a 4 at 4130 (based on phone call), presumably near sea level. (Their shop is in Tualatin OR, which is at 100 ft.) So the real-world pump curves maybe need to be shifted 100 rpm to the right.
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Re: HJ 212/213 pump curves

Postby Philsrt6 » Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:51 pm

Thanks for the info. I talked with Don at Maverick and he said the best setup for my 5.7 is the 2.9t. If I am going to spend the money to cut out the existing 312 and install this 213 then I want to get the most out of it so I will probably send it to him.
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Re: HJ 212/213 pump curves

Postby pbose » Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:11 pm

I have a 2.9 behind my kem 5.7 (2014 with cats) and got 4000 when tight, approaching 4100/4150 now that a few grains of sand have passed through. All within 50m of sea level.
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Re: HJ 212/213 pump curves

Postby Great White » Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:36 pm

Philsrt6 wrote:Just wondering if anyone can share any of the pump curves for either the 2.9T or 3.4T impellers. Can't seem to find any graphs or info on Hamilton's website regarding these size impellers. Also, can a 212 impeller be bored out for the lager 213 shaft? Just picked up a 213 and want to properly cam and setup the top end of a 406 sbc for this pump.
Thanks


There is a formula that determines HP absorption for a given impeller but I can't remember exactly what it is. I've also used intermountain and Maverick to do pump work. Intermountain was the best bang for the buck, where all the stuff Maverick did for $1500 did nothing for performance.
21' Custom Weld WWS...LS3/212.
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Re: HJ 212/213 pump curves

Postby mgrant » Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:50 pm

Great White wrote:
Philsrt6 wrote:Just wondering if anyone can share any of the pump curves for either the 2.9T or 3.4T impellers. Can't seem to find any graphs or info on Hamilton's website regarding these size impellers. Also, can a 212 impeller be bored out for the lager 213 shaft? Just picked up a 213 and want to properly cam and setup the top end of a 406 sbc for this pump.
Thanks


There is a formula that determines HP absorption for a given impeller but I can't remember exactly what it is. I've also used intermountain and Maverick to do pump work. Intermountain was the best bang for the buck, where all the stuff Maverick did for $1500 did nothing for performance.



(RPM/1000)(3rd power) x Impeller rated KW x 1.34 = Horsepower absorbed.
OutKast 24ft with fuel Injected 499 Max Wedge Mopar, and a happy owner of a Scott 912.
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Re: HJ 212/213 pump curves

Postby pbose » Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:42 pm

Updated graph with impeller curves from the formula provided...
Not sure how close this would line up with reality but keeps me out of trouble at work.
Attachments
5.7-6.2 comparison calc impeller curves.pdf
(370.67 KiB) Downloaded 76 times
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Re: HJ 212/213 pump curves

Postby magnum man » Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:42 am

Philsrt6 wrote:To bad they won’t release the power curves. It would be nice to have a target to shoot for. Second question, is the full house build that Maverick does worth the extra money? Seems like most guys just tighten up the impeller clearance and leave it at that.

Full house was totally worth it. Especially cant say enough about the stainles caps he makes for the stator vanes.
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Re: HJ 212/213 pump curves

Postby Eagle1 » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:41 pm

Hammie Man, I sent you a private message.

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