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Idaho Fish and Game screws every Idaho Citizen

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Re: Idaho Fish and Game screws every Idaho Citizen

Postby Eagle1 » Sat Dec 01, 2018 2:59 pm

It looks like one of the group are re thinking the BS call. They want IDFG to reopen the rivers. Let's see what happens.

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Re: Idaho Fish and Game screws every Idaho Citizen

Postby Lincoln » Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:42 pm

I read it as "We just screwed ourselves and we just wanted to screw everyone else".

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/loc ... 9hZC5jb20=
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Re: Idaho Fish and Game screws every Idaho Citizen

Postby KROY » Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:15 pm

Listen to the latest Meateater podcast by Steven Rinella.

He had on Idaho Fish and Game Director Virgil Moore. He explains the situation and also provides so other very insightful information.
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Re: Idaho Fish and Game screws every Idaho Citizen

Postby Cage » Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:00 am

Where are the boats supposed to gather for the show of force on Saturday? Are most people going to the Steelheaders ball in town on Saturday night?
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Re: Idaho Fish and Game screws every Idaho Citizen

Postby bottom bouncer » Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:35 pm

This is so sad that it has come to this. Those Washington groups did that to our Skagit river as well. Now not only do we not have a viable hatchery run of Steelhead but there are no native fish either. First had experience says that you must band together and fight these evil doing earth robbers that hard hiding behind the title (conservation). I am sorry that you all are having to experience what they have already been allowed to do to others. Hang em by the gallows fellars
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Re: Idaho Fish and Game screws every Idaho Citizen

Postby seanster » Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:29 pm

Looks like they've reopened things with some restrictions. Look at the idfg webpage for the details.

https://idfg.idaho.gov/press/steelhead- ... a-closures
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Re: Idaho Fish and Game screws every Idaho Citizen

Postby broncobran68 » Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:28 am

The revised closures are interesting. It seems that the Salmon/corn creek area guides may be hit much harder than the Riggins area guides. I wonder what the justification for the closures was? I see that they are only in effect until March 15 or until federal permit approval. Hopefully a permit is granted soon so these guys can make a living.
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Re: Idaho Fish and Game screws every Idaho Citizen

Postby bgilmlbz » Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:43 am

South Fork to the Middle Fork is pretty much what the closure is. That is where most of the wild fish(natural spawners) go.
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Re: Idaho Fish and Game screws every Idaho Citizen

Postby Upacreek » Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:42 am

Though I appreciate the steelhead season closure being suspended, I cannot believe how there isn't any talk of the salmon closure above Warren creek. What the heck were they thinking? I spend a fair amount of time above Warren creek and there are equally needful guides who profit from that part of the river as those in riggins. Was this a riggins only agreement? What about everyone else who fishes the main salmon?

Sounds to me the handful of environmental terrorists won and all steelhead fisherman lost, despite weather you have even seen the closed section of water.

I won't even start with the other concessions.......

I am VERY disappointed we gave in to so much. I hope everyone who fought to save this years steelhead season continues to fight for the future years to be more like last year than how this year has turned out.
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Re: Idaho Fish and Game screws every Idaho Citizen

Postby RM20 » Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:50 pm

This decision is only valid until we get the NOAA Fisheries incidental take permit. We would not have got them to back off of the lawsuit without some concessions. We need to continue to fight these groups because of what they have done on the coastal rivers, closing the hatcheries in favor of wild fish. We have won one battle but it isn't over and we need to continue to fight for more steelhead and salmon numbers.


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Re: Idaho Fish and Game screws every Idaho Citizen

Postby Skirulefool » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:25 am

IRCA is headed in the wrong direction with this agreement it must be rescinded now! This is exactly what happened with the wolf “reintroduction”. You cannot cave into the environmental group demands, they will win in the end. These closures and other fishing practices have no biological basis, they are only “feel good” measures for the environmentalists. You are not helping any wild fish while at the same time still punishing Idaho anglers it makes no sense. They are already talking about how these could be “long-term protections or strategies.”
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Re: Idaho Fish and Game screws every Idaho Citizen

Postby Skirulefool » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:31 am

RM20 wrote:This decision is only valid until we get the NOAA Fisheries incidental take permit. We would not have got them to back off of the lawsuit without some concessions. We need to continue to fight these groups because of what they have done on the coastal rivers, closing the hatcheries in favor of wild fish. We have won one battle but it isn't over and we need to continue to fight for more steelhead and salmon numbers.


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There has not been a battle won here, while everyone from riggins down is celebrating a "victory" the environmental groups are the winners, keep it all closed or open it all do not negotiate with the terrorists, you have now set the precedence to close sections everytime numbers are not where they want them, look at the long term effects and them trying to get boats off the wild rivers, IRCA needs to be United for all angles in idaho not just riggins and lewiston
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Re: Idaho Fish and Game screws every Idaho Citizen

Postby Skirulefool » Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:26 am

https://www.idahostatesman.com/outdoors ... 34170.html

Although Idaho Fish and Game officials were unwilling to implement changes to legal fishing gear and fishing practices requested by the conservation groups, outfitters and guides associated with the Idaho River Community Alliance agreed to voluntarily adopt some of them, according to the terms of the agreement, the outfitters and guides agreed to use only single, barbless hooks on plugs and lures; require their clients to keep the first hatchery fish they catch; and to release wild fish without removing them from the water.
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Re: Idaho Fish and Game screws every Idaho Citizen

Postby RM20 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:19 pm

You missed the point Skirule whatever, once we get the NOAA Fisheries permit for incidental take the Idaho F&G will probably open that stretch of river. We need to push them to let the clutch out and get it done.
I don't know who you are or if you even fish for steelhead but to have a voice you need to show up at the meetings for Idaho RCA and voice your opinion. The comment period for public input on the NOAA permit has been extended until Dec 13th, email a comment to them and contact your Senator and Congressman and voice your opinion. Donate to the cause, we had to hire legal assistance and he helped us get it done.
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Re: Idaho Fish and Game screws every Idaho Citizen

Postby Skirulefool » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:57 pm

RM20 wrote:You missed the point Skirule whatever, once we get the NOAA Fisheries permit for incidental take the Idaho F&G will probably open that stretch of river. We need to push them to let the clutch out and get it done.
I don't know who you are or if you even fish for steelhead but to have a voice you need to show up at the meetings for Idaho RCA and voice your opinion. The comment period for public input on the NOAA permit has been extended until Dec 13th, email a comment to them and contact your Senator and Congressman and voice your opinion. Donate to the cause, we had to hire legal assistance and he helped us get it done.
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Mike Adams

I don't think I missed the point RM whatever, you just said f&g will "probably" open those areas once the permit is obtained. I am a 35 year old family man from SE idaho who likes to fish and loves to drive boat in the section of the main that is now closed because the false data that more wild fish congregate in that area, this is a baby step in a big plan, I have more emails and phone calls out then should even have to. MC is just another stop to help inform the people who have not fully read past the headline to learn how terrible this deal is. I do not know you any more then you know me but I hope you realize how bad this is for the whole state, I do not believe I should donate to the IRCA if they only fight for what is best for the riggins chapter and not all idaho anglers
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Re: Idaho Fish and Game screws every Idaho Citizen

Postby RM20 » Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:09 am

Well, I guess it's like teaching a pig to sing, it's a waste of time and it annoys the pig.
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Re: Idaho Fish and Game screws every Idaho Citizen

Postby whee » Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:25 am

Insulting people doesn't benefit anyone Mike. It's pretty obvious that Skirulefool has some valid points. IRCA is biased towards Riggins but that's easy to see why. It's also easy to see why contributing to them is of little benefit to anglers that don't fish the area they are biased towards. For those that only fish the road less section of the Main all your good work is of no benefit. For them your legal assistance didn't get anything done so of course they don't want to help you pay for the legal services. But I also think Skirulefool is being a little over reactive. This was a win to some degree. Some, probably most, ID anglers will be able to fish their preferred waters. Others have to option to fish somewhere else till their preferred spots get reopened.

We'd get further if we truly worked together but that's not human nature. Each of us fight for causes we believe in and hopefully we are part of the majority so we have a better chance of not be left out in the cold. Unfortunately for some of us East Idaho anglers we were left out in the cold. Because there are so few of us that fish that section is it entirely possible we'll never see it reopened.
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Re: Idaho Fish and Game screws every Idaho Citizen

Postby RM20 » Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:33 pm

I'm 64 years old and I caught my first steelhead in 1966 so you all can do the math. If you don't want to listen to reality, then I don't have much patience. Reality is if we didn't negotiate with them we would have no season, so I think we are better off. I only fish the roadless stretch so yes it does effect me. I hold a Limited Masters Coast Guard License and I'm a guide on the Salmon River so it does have an impact on my income. Not targeting those B run wild fish at the mouth of the South Fork around the end of March I'm going to miss. But if I and some of the other guides have to sacrifice that to have a steelhead season then so be it.


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Re: Idaho Fish and Game screws every Idaho Citizen

Postby whee » Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:08 pm

I completely agree that we have to negotiate with them and understand this is likely the best deal we were going to get. I was just sharing the perspective of an angler from the opposite side of the state.

I'm not anywhere near as old as you RM and I'm not on the water fishing professionally so my personal experience isn't even a drop in the bucket by comparison. I appreciate it when people like yourself get seriously involved in things like this. I apologize that I was unable to adequately share some my thoughts in my previous post. My family started steelhead and salmon fishing in the 1940s and have experienced a significant change when it comes to such fishing. Little by little the enjoyment was taken and eventually my Grandfather stopped going. Standing shoulder to shoulder or boat to boat wasn't nearly as enjoyable to him as having miles of river to himself. It's unfortunate that anglers couldn't organized them selves back then and I hope we can do better in the future.
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Re: Idaho Fish and Game screws every Idaho Citizen

Postby viking » Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:48 am

Patience is what the ideologically obsessed conservationists have plenty of. To level the playing field, play like they play. My guess is the first stop should be the underlying research that is no doubt biased beyond rational comprehension. It will have lots and lots of important-sounding and intimidating words that, upon close examination, are nonsense. Understand it, expose the flaws, and publish analysis in peer-reviewed journals. If nobody has the time for this, hire college kids to chase it for their masters degree thesis. Next, figure out what is important to the ideologically obsessed, and figure out how to use the legal system to take that from them. Don't just play defense. Play offense.

Regarding whether old-timers or newcomers should have more voice, I really don't care. Whoever has the best voice is what matters in the end. In this regard, a lawyer is just a newcomer for hire. The folks at the top really don't care.
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