USFS NEW TOY

[desperado]

You right Desperado. I'm being to general in the use of my description of forest service personnel. I'll sharpen the point a little. My verbal description should be taken only to mean the ones making the policy decisions in Hells Canyon, The Umitilla forest, the crimes against recreational miners in Idaho,...ect. The forest service isn't what it was 20 years ago. I am sure there are a lot of retired UDFS employees just shaking their heads at the state of the organization now. It has become a money hungry tool swung by the liberal tree huggers who have some how stolen their ear. The forest service agenda is nothing like it used to be.[/quote]

Fair enough Oaks1 thanks! As for the Forest Service and many other agencies I do believe they have lost their way with there original charter. It has in many ways become more special interest pitting groups against each other. This boat is an example of that, this boat was most likely a needed replacement but got caught up in the larger issue we are currently dealing with in the canyon, higher fees, and less perceived service, the feeling not all users are sharing in the pain and 2 primary user groups playing tug of war in an area we all love. I do not know the answer and yes sometimes it takes getting pissed off to garner change. At the very least it was bad timing in rolling out this new boat.

[Eagle1]

I grew up in the 60's while camping in the forest. I have two questions 1. Can I buy that 28' twin Yanmar with Hamilton 241 pumps that has newer engines and pumps.2. Where the hell is Lassie the dog. The dog always helped out.

Eagle1

[Rkt]

I was wondering, why the USFS would need a 300k dollar twin deisel to to run up and down the river patrolling the people that actually take care of the canyon. To justify a $300k boat the rest of us would have to be making money with it. So we could turn around and give the USFS 1% of our gross. So they can piss it away. Looks to me like a 22 -24 ft would have been plenty good enough for 2-5 people. Also whats going to happen with the boat that was "wore out", yet is still better then what the rest of us drive.

[lovetheedge]

FYI, normally the boat gets sold at auction if it is not kept.
The extra length of the boat is so they can transport fire fighters, etc. to respond to emergencies.

[Oakes1]

I was wondering, why the USFS would need a 300k dollar twin deisel to to run up and down the river patrolling the people that actually take care of the canyon. To justify a $300k boat the rest of us would have to be making money with it. So we could turn around and give the USFS 1% of our gross. So they can piss it away. Looks to me like a 22 -24 ft would have been plenty good enough for 2-5 people. Also whats going to happen with the boat that was "wore out", yet is still better then what the rest of us drive.

They already have a 22ft white water boat. That's their one person boat, while the 30ft. is their 2 or 3 person boat. I'm not sure I have ever seen the 22ft. anywhere but at the parking lot next to the office. According to the contract signed by Bentz, the old wore out dilapidated 30ft. that was completely refitted a few years ago, may have been traded in on the new one. It was an option in the contract. Not sure if it happened or not. From what I have seen, anytime there is a fire up the canyon, its the tour and guides that step up and haul fire fighters. I may have just missed seeing the USFS boat hauling DNR guys around.

[Eagle1]

Maybe they are going to fish out of it.


Eagle1

[cromedogg33]

Don't quote me on this but I THINK bentz took the old boat as partial payment. I believe the 22' is loaned out to another forest service entity since they couldn't afford to run both boats.... something along those lines anyway.

[m1ashooter]

Surely they can afford to run them both, they can after all afford the new one.

[Draggin up]

Any fire crew transportation you can bet will be contracted out. 2 or three FS guys will just be cruzing up and down the river in that big twin "supervising" a bunch of guys in yellow suits who can't and won't fight the fire because of all the government regulation bullshit. They could have went cheaper, but why, its not their money. Any one of us on here would do the same thing if we were spending sombody else's money. There is zero accountability with fs spending. A great example was the new airforce one budget. If hillary had won you can bet your ass she would have let that plane be built to the max. But Trump handled it way under budget. The same thing should have been done on this boat deal. I'd bet a lot of money 90 percent of the time we see that boat on the river there are less than 4 people on board, most likely just one or two. Id be shocked if you EVER see it hauling fire crews or any other crews for that matter. When we see it it will be pulling up next to us to check our little permit and make sure we have a little pottie on board. And there will only be 2 Guys on it. All that they could easily do on a decent 20 foot boat for 1/2 the cost. Pisses me off every time i look at my taxes! Were all paying for this shit!

[Draggin up]

And shure they may have budgeted for this the last 15 years...SO WHAT.. that dosent mean they have to spend the whole budget on a huge boat. But we all know how that works in the fs budget.....spend it all or loose it. So they spend it all. They need serious budget reform.

[Oakes1]

Something about that boat was nagging at me. It just didn't look right for a bentz. I think I figured it out, but then again I may be wrong. When bentz started building a more affordable boat (the 23 pro, and all the other pro models now) they took a boat that (in their words) took 900hrs to build down to a 600hr. build. Now don't quote me, as its been a while sense I was told all this. The pros have always looked a bit odd to me, and are very easy to tell from a commercial bentz. There are a lot of structural differences but there is one difference that is very obvious. That is the thing that looks out of sorts with the USFS boat to me. Commercial bentz, or any bentz built before the Pro series stared (with the exception of some sportjet sleds) sit on a rocker/sloped bottom. The entire boat is built a bit up hill from the bottom. They look different on a trailer then any other boat, and there is a different way they look cruising up the river at a steady plane. I don't know if maybe they aren't doing that anymore (that would be a shame), or this boat is too big to use that type of bottom configuration. It just looks way to square to me. Maybe someone on here can clear that up for me. Just damn curious.

Now no one get pissy. I'm not saying the pros are weak boats. They are not, and in fact they are pretty damn bad ass. They are just not build the same as the commercial boats are.

Look at the attached picture. Look closely at the difference distance between the lower bead roll and the chine at the back and compare to mid ship.
.

[Eagle1]

That boat is bent. Need to get it to the body shop.

Eagle1

[Benny]

Oaks1, now we have a discussion!!! I have a 23pro and it does not start lifting from the transom forward. It does have a shorter flat spot than the pick you showed because it's several ft shorter. If it started lifting right off the transom like some boats it would never find a home on step causing it to porpoise. This is why some builders need trim tabs on all their to make their boats to settle down on step. Bryan cut the hrs down by making a more production style boat without custom changes to length width structure and so on . Best running boat I have ever owned!! And no my panties are not in a bunch. I do think very highly of my 23 pro and the crew that built it for me!!

[FlyLow]

It looks like Bentz needs to find a longer press brake so they don't have to weld the sides together. Have they always done that?

[Benny]

Flylow...thats what makes them so good in big white water!!!! Too bad yours doesn't have that feature? LOL

[Oakes1]

It's become more of a signature then anything else. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I like it...character.

[desperado]

As an fyi I was over on the snake this past weekend and saw the new boat in action. It went up river with 2 people and came back with about 10 in the boat. I believe they picked up some folks at sheep creek. The bad thing is when they went by us at salt creek they washed us out. Oh well at least it was getting used.

As for Oaks discussion yes,!!! as Benny said now we have a discussion. I also have a pro and I have got to admit it is a mighty nice boat when on plane either empty or with a load all without having trim tabs. Looking forward to people who know way more than me on boat bottoms and how the are built and the expected results of the different designs.

[Benny]

I think we should make one big party/ RUN AND all sit around the camp Fire with boats on the bank and a cocktail to hash out all these important details!!!

[desperado]

[Draggin up]

I think we should make one big party/ RUN AND all sit around the camp Fire with boats on the bank and a cocktail to hash out all these important details!!!

Thats a great idea Benny! Lets bring a few people that get welfare checks and food stamps to provide the rib eyes and beer in exchange for a boat ride. lol