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Jerks on the Salmon

Re: Jerks on the Salmon

Postby chariotdriver » Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:33 pm

gravitysucks wrote:Thank you Viking and Loves the edge. Well stated and informative.


Well said indeed. Anybody who disagrees may be suffering an SA (situational awareness) deficit. If the Green New Deal "geniuses" come into power anytime soon the wording in all favorable regulations will most likely change in a direction which doesn't favor anything burning petro products. Highly doubt there is a better jet boating river than the salmon on this planet. If there is I'm all ears plus looking for a ride on it.

If we start to lose this battle it needs to delve into a scorched earth plan. No power boats on the river = no man made products on the river---period; need to keep the area as pristine as possible.

:Drink1:
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Re: Jerks on the Salmon

Postby chariotdriver » Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:39 pm

coolaintcheap wrote:I don’t know any of the parties involved and so I don’t mean to be a chit disturber... Well maybe I do. How come admin not only allows other members to accuse without proof and then scolds a group of boaters for their supposed actions but years ago when we all knew a certain builder was robbing the f^#k out of people, we were all shut down when we tried to call him out. Sorry but I had to ask. I just thought no bad mouthing was allowed? Let me know how long I’ll be put in time out for. :ButtKisser:


In the "Admins" defense, they had some/several legal obligation(s) to sponsors who paid several thousand dollars per annual sponsorships. I don't know what the legalize was though the Admin folks did mention more than one time how their censoring/involvement was subject to legal bounds. Doesn't change how people feel about it......the law doesn't care how anybody feels about anything :Drink:
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Re: Jerks on the Salmon

Postby chariotdriver » Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:48 pm

waylon wrote:"the dude with the 8" pecker" internet officially broken. lol.


Somewhat off topic:

I hope it was measured with long distance precision equipment vs anything requiring close proximity. :Scared:
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Re: Jerks on the Salmon

Postby viking » Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:42 pm

Indeed, the "scorched earth plan" could be sponsored via proxy, it's intent being to allow within the Wilderness only that which was similarly present prior to 1492 AD. This would mean no modern clothing or implements of any kind, no plastics, no horses, etc. Were this plan seriously pursued, it would become the common enemy. Given that the enemy of my enemy is my friend, we would find the rafters soliciting the assistance of jet-boaters, and we might even find horsemen soliciting the assistance of... mountain bikers. Game Of Thrones, hey.
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Re: Jerks on the Salmon

Postby coolaintcheap » Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:05 pm

chariotdriver wrote:
coolaintcheap wrote:I don’t know any of the parties involved and so I don’t mean to be a chit disturber... Well maybe I do. How come admin not only allows other members to accuse without proof and then scolds a group of boaters for their supposed actions but years ago when we all knew a certain builder was robbing the f^#k out of people, we were all shut down when we tried to call him out. Sorry but I had to ask. I just thought no bad mouthing was allowed? Let me know how long I’ll be put in time out for. :ButtKisser:


In the "Admins" defense, they had some/several legal obligation(s) to sponsors who paid several thousand dollars per annual sponsorships. I don't know what the legalize was though the Admin folks did mention more than one time how their censoring/involvement was subject to legal bounds. Doesn't change how people feel about it......the law doesn't care how anybody feels about anything :Drink:


You are correct. His attorney also threatened ridiculous lawsuits against many of the members! Considering the history I’m surprised his ad money was accepted!!!
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Re: Jerks on the Salmon

Postby Ahusk » Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:32 pm

Sorry, that some of the rafters you guys deal with suck so bad. I am sure it's frustrating. I am pretty sure everyone on this site fully feels that jetboaters have just as much right to be on the river as floaters.

Question Do you think playing raft slalom, waking and loud music makes the tension between groups better or worse?

Chariotdriver, I have only been from the mouth to Riggins and only at low water but as far a technical boating, scenery, remoteness, and hiking opportunities the Rogue would probably give the Salmon a run for it's money. If you want big water through the Salmon is definitely where it's at.
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Re: Jerks on the Salmon

Postby coolaintcheap » Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:03 pm

Ahusk wrote:Sorry, that some of the rafters you guys deal with suck so bad. I am sure it's frustrating. I am pretty sure everyone on this site fully feels that jetboaters have just as much right to be on the river as floaters.

Question Do you think playing raft slalom, waking and loud music makes the tension between groups better or worse?

Chariotdriver, I have only been from the mouth to Riggins and only at low water but as far a technical boating, scenery, remoteness, and hiking opportunities the Rogue would probably give the Salmon a run for it's money. If you want big water through the Salmon is definitely where it's at.


I know sometimes playing raft salmom is the only way through in the shallow/rocky sections. I firmly believe there are certain floaters that despise the powerboats regardless of how much they try and accommodate and vice versa. It almost reminds me of what’s going on in the political arena at the moment. A related question... I’ve always wondered what’s the true Ernie Duckworth vs raft story? I’ve heard different versions but never talked to someone with firsthand knowledge.
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Re: Jerks on the Salmon

Postby Ahusk » Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:22 pm

Coolaintcheap

I fully agree that for a certain portion of floaters they will hate you no matter what?.

I also understand there are times you have no choice but to stay on plane.
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Re: Jerks on the Salmon

Postby Upacreek » Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:34 pm

Question Do you think playing raft slalom, waking and loud music makes the tension between groups better or worse?

Actually I am pretty respectful of others. I drive defensively and assertively. I try and discern which rafts are cool or grouchy. I have a secret weapon, my 2 year old waves and says HI to everyone he sees, so it lightens things up. Last month we came down from allison ranch and had the rafters waving and cheering as we came through a big rapid. I've seen rafters do a little dance when I have the stereo up, kinda wiggle like they like my tunes. If they look grouchy I turn it down.

And for the record I dont need to apologize for having a stereo. I respect others and have never had a complaint.

I dont complain when the raft chicks wave and have Chewbacca hiding under their arm pits.
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Re: Jerks on the Salmon

Postby Ahusk » Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:56 pm

Upacreek wrote:Question Do you think playing raft slalom, waking and loud music makes the tension between groups better or worse?

Actually I am pretty respectful of others. I drive defensively and assertively. I try and discern which rafts are cool or grouchy. I have a secret weapon, my 2 year old waves and says HI to everyone he sees, so it lightens things up. Last month we came down from allison ranch and had the rafters waving and cheering as we came through a big rapid. I've seen rafters do a little dance when I have the stereo up, kinda wiggle like they like my tunes. If they look grouchy I turn it down.

And for the record I dont need to apologize for having a stereo. I respect others and have never had a complaint.

I dont complain when the raft chicks wave and have Chewbacca hiding under their arm pits.


:Drink:
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Re: Jerks on the Salmon

Postby chariotdriver » Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:33 pm

Ahusk wrote:Sorry, that some of the rafters you guys deal with suck so bad. I am sure it's frustrating. I am pretty sure everyone on this site fully feels that jetboaters have just as much right to be on the river as floaters.

Question Do you think playing raft slalom, waking and loud music makes the tension between groups better or worse?

Chariotdriver, I have only been from the mouth to Riggins and only at low water but as far a technical boating, scenery, remoteness, and hiking opportunities the Rogue would probably give the Salmon a run for it's money. If you want big water through the Salmon is definitely where it's at.


Great seeing this thread morphing into something civil.

Mouth to Riggins represents less than 1/3 of the Salmon with the Main (imo, the best part) starting 10 miles upstream of Riggins around Spring Bar. From there it's over 100 miles to the confluence with the middle fork........this chunk is the part I'll never stop thinking about. My hats off to those who run it at less than 10K Whitebird; have run at 12K and over 50K. Prefer higher flows as the boat is better prepared to deal with it.
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Re: Jerks on the Salmon

Postby chariotdriver » Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:42 pm

viking wrote:Indeed, the "scorched earth plan" could be sponsored via proxy, it's intent being to allow within the Wilderness only that which was similarly present prior to 1492 AD. This would mean no modern clothing or implements of any kind, no plastics, no horses, etc. Were this plan seriously pursued, it would become the common enemy. Given that the enemy of my enemy is my friend, we would find the rafters soliciting the assistance of jet-boaters, and we might even find horsemen soliciting the assistance of... mountain bikers. Game Of Thrones, hey.


Burn it down!

Sun Tzu or maybe Sanskrit 101 at its finest :Drink:
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Re: Jerks on the Salmon

Postby Riverjohn » Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:56 pm

We were running the Lower Salmon July 24th to Monday the 28th. There were two boats running and we ran into several groups of rafts between the mouth and just below Pine Bar. We did not have any problems with them. We had to slow to an idle in a few places. Had to run between a couple in one spot nobody got excited and were waving back. This is just what we saw. I get there once or twice a year. :Drink: :Drink:
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Re: Jerks on the Salmon

Postby viking » Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:25 pm

Ahusk -- At the correct flow, you can actually run the Salmon from the confluence to almost Challis (stopped by low bridge), which is about 350 miles, and relatively little is boring. Total elevation gain is maybe 5000 feet. Topography includes rolling sagebrush, coniferous mountains, and eventually a winding high plain. Ideal flow would be something less than 30K at White Bird, and 5-6K at Salmon. This will tend to happen later in the season, when snow melt is coming from the highest mountains (later June ish). The difficulty is in having enough water at high elevation, and not too much water at The Slide, which is maybe 5 miles upstream from the confluence. At 9K in Salmon many bridges are too low, and the trip may be cut short by 70 miles (and The Slide would be problematic).

If you were to start in Lewiston, you could just call it a nice even 400 miles each way. Day trip. Be ready for the call.
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Re: Jerks on the Salmon

Postby Ahusk » Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:55 pm

viking wrote:Ahusk -- At the correct flow, you can actually run the Salmon from the confluence to almost Challis (stopped by low bridge), which is about 350 miles, and relatively little is boring. Total elevation gain is maybe 5000 feet. Topography includes rolling sagebrush, coniferous mountains, and eventually a winding high plain. Ideal flow would be something less than 30K at White Bird, and 5-6K at Salmon. This will tend to happen later in the season, when snow melt is coming from the highest mountains (later June ish). The difficulty is in having enough water at high elevation, and not too much water at The Slide, which is maybe 5 miles upstream from the confluence. At 9K in Salmon many bridges are too low, and the trip may be cut short by 70 miles (and The Slide would be problematic).

If you were to start in Lewiston, you could just call it a nice even 400 miles each way. Day trip. Be ready for the call.


Sounds like a trip I need to add to my bucket list. I have to get a different boat. I am pretty sure that any flow I would be willing to run it in my current boat, you guys would not be so willing.
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Re: Jerks on the Salmon

Postby whee » Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:48 pm

This thread has been for the most part an interesting read and I appreciate the further education.

I’m mostly a self taught jet boater and a life long rafter/kayaker. Whenever possible I idle past floaters but only to reduce the intensity of my presence. Other power boaters I don’t slow down usually. A few years ago I asked if you guys on the Salmon really slowed down to pass parked jet boats and was told yes, absolutely. I found that interesting; it’s ok to wake rafts but not ok to wake jet boats. We’ve always gotten along with jet boaters pretty good, we move over when possible and they move over when possible. But there’s always bad apples in every community.

Any motorized use in a wilderness area is always going to receive extra scrutiny. It’s a constant battle in the Idaho backcountry aviation community to keep airstrips open, educate pilots and try to change poor etiquette. I really wouldn’t take much to limit access to the point that “access” as required but the wilderness act would be met but not actually reasonably available.
Last edited by whee on Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jerks on the Salmon

Postby Riverjohn » Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:25 pm

whee wrote:This thread has been for the most part an interesting read and I appreciate the further education.

I’m mostly a self taught jet boater and a life long rafter/kayaker. Whenever possible I idle past floaters but only to reduce the intensity of my presence. Other power boaters I don’t slow don’t fit. A few years ago I asked if you guys on the Salmon really slowed down to pass parked jet boats and was told yes, absolutely. I found that interesting; it’s ok to wake rafts but not ok to wake jet boats. We’ve always gotten along with jet boaters pretty good, we move over when possible and they move over when possible. But there’s always bad apples in every community.

Any motorized use in a wilderness area is always going to receive extra scrutiny. It’s a constant battle in the Idaho backcountry aviation community to keep airstrips open, educate pilots and try to change poor etiquette. I really wouldn’t take much to limit access to the point that “access” as required but the wilderness act would be met but not actually reasonably available.

You left out the part "If They Are Parked On The ROCKS"
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Re: Jerks on the Salmon

Postby whee » Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:48 pm

Riverjohn wrote:You left out the part "If They Are Parked On The ROCKS"


Well, then don’t park on the rocks.

I’ve pretty much accepted slowing down for parked boats as proper river etiquette and I do it equally for floaters and power boats. I never slow down for a power boat that isn’t parked but when possible I do slow down for floaters.

Anecdotally, local etiquette seems to be power boaters don’t slow down for other power boaters, parked or not, and maybe half of the power boaters slow down for the thousands of drift boaters on the river. On my few trips to Glenn’s Ferry about half the boats that past slowed down while I was parked. I try to adjust to the local way of doing things, “when in Rome.”
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Re: Jerks on the Salmon

Postby lovetheedge » Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:13 am

You said you were self taught. I was taught to slow down down for all, including parked boats. I hate it when I am parked and fishing and a power boat goes by full blast and rocks the boat. I normally tie to shore when fishing. The waves rock the boat and sometimes pushes it against the rocks and has put some pretty big scratches in the side. Also you better be sitting down or a hold of something as you can get knocked down. You also better not be holding a drink in a glass, it may very well spill on you.
If I have my bait on the bottom where I want it, the waves push the boat and moves the bait from where I want it.
As an aside, when going up river you don't need to slow down until you nearly reach the boat/raft as your wake will be pushed down stream, but you will need to not speed up until well beyond the boat/raft as the current will push the wake on down into them. When going down stream, its the opposite, slow down before reaching the boat/raft prior and you can speed back up shortly after passing them.
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Re: Jerks on the Salmon

Postby On The Rocks » Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:14 pm

Never understood why one would have to slow down and not create a wake for the WHITEWATER RAFTS??? You know, the guys who try to hit the biggest waves on the river??? :bs:
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